July, 1980. “My God!” said the Duchess, “Take your hand off my knee!”
Phyllis Eisenstein‘s Born to Exile. Reported by David Lenander.
Dainis Bisenieks told us about Randall Garrett’s book of pastiches, Takeoff! He moved onto Silverlock, by John Myers Myers, which he explained was of a certain type of which Poul Anderson’s Dancer from Atlantis is another example. We observed that the Thomas Covenant books partake of the device of a misfit finding an appropriate world to live in, as do such others as Witch World and Two To Conquer. This prompted Dainis to observe that the hero of Two to Conquer is, truly, a royal bastard, in both senses. Cathy Parlin mentioned that The Tolkien Fellowship newsletter, The Westmarch Chronicle reported on the forthcoming Allen & Unwin book, Unfinished Tales, which will have about 400 pages. We wondered when the U.S. edition would appear.
Cathy opened the discussion of Born to Exile by complaining of the “blah” love scenes. She had tried reading these out loud, which Dainis agreed was “always a good test.” In Cathy’s judgement, Eisenstein shows a good knowledge of medieval detail, especially of material culture, but that the characters are too 20th century for their context. I thought that Eisenstein’s anthropology comes through in the last story, where the society was developed more convincingly as something quite different from our 20th century culture. Perhaps the emphasis on material culture in the earlier stories of the book indicate that Eisenstein is more of an archeologist than a social anthropologist, though I have no idea what sort of anthropologist she really is.
Cathy complained that she could appreciate the different sections of Exile as short stories, but that they do not convincingly add up to a novel. At that, I thought, Exile has an awfully truncated air about it in the way the story breaks off, so suddenly without finishing any of the sub-plot lines. Among these unfinished plots we numbered the love relationship with Solinde, the story of the friendly dwarf, the relationship of the hero to his family (revenge?), the importance/meaning of the ancient, ruined castle which is apparently somehow the foundation of the family power (how?), the development of the hero’s apparently greater powers than the rest of his family (mutation?). We further discussed the love relationship with Solinde, whom Cathy characterized as “straight out of a gothic novel.” We agreed that it was quite unlikely that our hero would have resisted going back to visit Solinde, and that he probably needs to do so-something almost bound to result in disillusionment at this point-before he will be able to enter into and deal with other love relationships.
Ruth Berman arrived late and we turned to her to ask what it was that had impressed her about this book that most of us had judged inferior to Sorcerer’s Son. Ruth agreed that the latter was a better book, and explained that what had intrigued her about Born To Exile was the way the young hero turns out to be a long lost prince (as in so many stories) but this doesn’t mean anything-everyone in his family is a prince, and there are hundreds. Furthermore, his long lost heritage is of no help to him in his hopes to marry a princess.
I was impressed by the ending of the first story, the way the dwarf saves him was a happy surprise, and worked very well.
Dainis told of a recent advertizement in the New Yorker for pocelain figures of LOTR characters. From the picture he described them as “slick, detailed, not bad.” Aragorn is in a tunic with one of thse exaggerated wide leather belts. Dainis continued with an entertaining exposition on this remarkably durable style, which has run through countless historical motion pictures from the silent film to taday, not only in films of the European middle ages and Renaissance, but also in films of Jason and the Argonauts, and other such classical subjects, and Biblical films, as well. We concluded that one of these figurines would make a perfect mathom.
Dainis also referred to the Book of Weird (originally published as The Glass Harmonica) by Barb Nicole Byfield, which is a very funny large format illustrated encyclopedia of clichés of fantasy and Romance. The text under the entry for Wizards is especially priceless.
We concluded by discussing style, and someone (Ruth? Dainis?) quoted the sentence I have headed this report with, which is an example of the sort of sentence articles on writing prescribe to grab the reader’s attention immediately-its advantage as a hook is that it combines the subjects of religion, nobility and sex with dialogue-all things people like to read about. [Of course today such a sentence is so passé as to be scarcely effective in parody, though I suppose that there are still plenty of published stories and novels which begin with such tried and true clichés].
Next Meetings
Zoom meetings: Go to “Next Rivendell Meeting” in the posts for the link, posted 15 minutes before the meeting starts. Meetings start at 1:30 pm Central Time.
Future meetings:November 23: Ink, Blood, Sister, Scribe by Emma Törzs
December 7: Readings from Rivendell
January 18, 2025: Summoned by Dragons by Joan Marie Verba
Pages
- About
- About Discussion Groups
- Annual Report of David Lenander for 1996
- Discussion Group Calendars and Newsletters
- Guidelines for starting a Discussion Group of The Mythopoeic Society (1996)
- Mythopoeic Discussion Group Charter
- Mythopoeic Society Discussion Groups
- Origin of Names Used by Discussion Groups
- Starting a Discussion Group
- Starting a local CSL group a discussion from MereLewis
- Authors
- Carol Kendall
- Caroline Stevermer and Patricia C. Wrede
- Douglas A. Anderson
- Eleanor Arnason
- A Brief History of the Order of St. Cyprian-the-Athlete by Eleanor Arnason
- A Woman of the Axe-Grinder People
- About Eleanor Arnason’s Ring of Swords
- An Arnason Note
- Eleanor Arnason bibliography
- Review of A Woman of the Iron People
- Ring of Swords: An Appreciation
- The Small Black Box of Morality by Eleanor Arnason
- Vampires and Aliens
- Jack Zipes
- Jane Yolen
- Joan Marie Verba
- Kay Lindskoog remembered
- Lucy M. Boston
- Margaret Howes
- Michael M. Levy and Sandra Lindow
- P. C. Hodgell
- Peg Kerr
- Ruth Berman
- Essays, etc.
- Comments about Smith’s Wren, by C. Lenander
- Comments by D. Lenander on The Paper Grail
- Comments on 1996 MFA/MSA nominees
- Comments on Blaylock’s All the Bells on Earth
- Comments on Brittle Innings by Michael Bishop
- Comments on Elizabeth Hand’s Waking the Moon
- Comments on Kenneth Morris’s The Dragon Path
- Evangeline Walton, remembered
- G. Funk discusses Cooper, Gray, Jones, and Smith novels
- Houghton Mifflin LotR 1999 Press Release
- Kaveny reviews H. P. Lovecraft
- Kaveny reviews JRRT Artist & Illustrator
- Krentz reviews two Books by Kara Dalkey
- Krentz reviews Waugh and Gray novels
- Last Homely Hearth newsletter
- Once Upon A Time (apa)
- Reports from Ruth Berman
- The Hobbit on Stage
- Wynne reviews Possession by A.S. Byatt
- Event Archives
- Meeting Archives
- A Woman of the Iron People discussion
- C. S. Lewis discussion – The Dark Tower
- Caroline Stevermer discussions, 10-15-88 and 10-25-14
- List of past Rivendell topics from 1980 to 1985
- List of past Rivendell topics from 1997 to 2010
- Lloyd Alexander discussion
- Phyllis Eisenstein discussion
- Readings from Rivendell 12-12-15
- Readings from Rivendell 12-12-2020
- Readings from Rivendell, 12-1-2018
- Readings from Rivendell, 12-10-16
- Readings from Rivendell, 12-13-14
- Readings from Rivendell, 12-14-19
- Readings from Rivendell, 12-9-17
- Rivendell Discussion October 1, 2016 – Eleanor Arnasons’s Hwarhath Stories
- Rivendell Meeting January 30, 2021 – The Ten Thousand Doors of January
- Rivendell Meeting September 19, 2015 – Hobbit Birthday Party
- Rivendell meeting-November 22, 2014-Hobbit movie discussion
- Rivendell Meeting, January 9, 2016 – The Goblin Emperor
- Rivendell Meeting, April 20, 2019 – Jane Yolen
- Rivendell meeting, April 24, 2021 – Snow White Learns Witchcraft by Theodora Goss
- Rivendell Meeting, April 27, 2024 – The Adventures of Amina Al-Sirafi by Shannon Chakraborty
- Rivendell Meeting, April 30, 2016 – Rusalka
- Rivendell Meeting, April 7, 2018, Lois McMaster Bujold
- Rivendell Meeting, August 15, 2015 – Catherynne M. Valente
- Rivendell meeting, August 16, 2014 – Moomins
- Rivendell meeting, August 17, 2019 – Seanan McGuire
- Rivendell Meeting, August 20, 2016 – Edward Eager, Seven Day Magic
- Rivendell Meeting, August 20, 2022 – The Hidden Palace by Helene Wecker
- Rivendell Meeting, August 26, 2017, Mythcon discussion with David Emerson and David Lenander
- Rivendell Meeting, August 28, 2021 – Readings from Rivendell
- Rivendell Meeting, August 29, 2020 – Author Readings
- Rivendell Meeting, August 4, 2024 – Eleanor Arnason
- Rivendell meeting, December 3, 2022 – Readings from Rivendell
- Rivendell Meeting, December 4, 2021 – Readings From Rivendell
- Rivendell Meeting, February 14, 2015 – Charles Williams Poetry
- Rivendell meeting, February 17, 2018 – Theodore Sturgeon
- Rivendell Meeting, February 20, 2016 – Naomi Kritzer
- Rivendell meeting, February 24, 2024 – One of Me Is Missing by Laramie Sasseville
- Rivendell Meeting, February 26, 2017 – Battle of the Five Armies movie
- Rivendell Meeting, February 26, 2022, Piranesi by Susanna Clarke
- Rivendell Meeting, February 27, 2021 – Caroline Stevermer, The Glass Magician
- Rivendell Meeting, February 8, 2020 – Ursula LeGuin, Earthsea
- Rivendell Meeting, February 9, 2019 – Ben Aaronovitch, Rivers of London
- Rivendell meeting, January 10, 2015 – Britomart
- Rivendell Meeting, January 11, 2020, Jonathan Auxier
- Rivendell Meeting, January 12, 2019 : Theodora Goss
- Rivendell Meeting, January 20, 2018 – Tom Siddell
- Rivendell Meeting, January 27, 2024 – Brian Attebery – Fantasy How It Works
- Rivendell meeting, January 28, 2023 – Twelve: A Retelling of The Twelve Dancing Princesses by Joan Marie Verba
- Rivendell Meeting, January 29, 2022, Jack Zipes, Little Mole and Honey Bear
- Rivendell meeting, January 7, 2017 – Hrolf Kraki Saga
- Rivendell Meeting, July 16, 2016 – OZ
- Rivendell Meeting, July 18, 2015 – Desolation of Smaug movie
- Rivendell meeting, July 19, 2014 – Green Knowe series
- Rivendell Meeting, July 20, 2019 – Three Parts Dead, Max Gladstone
- Rivendell Meeting, July 22, 2023 – Jack Zipes
- Rivendell Meeting, July 23, 2017 – Michael Levy & Farah Mendlesohn
- Rivendell Meeting, July 23, 2022 – Encanto
- Rivendell Meeting, July 24, 2021 – Jennifer Jodell – Caring for Humanity in a Post-Apocalyptic World
- Rivendell Meeting, July 27-29, 2018 – Charlie Jane Anders
- Rivendell meeting, June 13, 2015 – Franny Billingsley
- Rivendell Meeting, June 16, 2018 – Wind in the Willows, Kenneth Grahame, The River Bank, Kij Johnson
- Rivendell meeting, June 17, 2017 – Brian Attebery, Stories about Stories
- Rivendell Meeting, June 17, 2023 – Legends & Lattes by Travis Baldree
- Rivendell Meeting, June 18, 2016, Lord Dunsany
- Rivendell Meeting, June 22, 2019 – Ka by John Crowley
- Rivendell Meeting, June 26, 2021: The Seal-Wife motif in folklore and fairy tales with Samantha Crain
- Rivendell Meeting, March 11, 2023 – P. C. Hodgell, Deathless Gods
- Rivendell Meeting, March 12, 2016 – Michael Ward’s Planet Narnia
- Rivendell Meeting, March 17, 2018 – Ursula Le Guin
- Rivendell meeting, March 21, 2015 – Secret Murder by Ellen Kuhfeld
- Rivendell Meeting, March 23, 2019, Gregory Maguire, Egg and Spoon
- Rivendell Meeting, March 25, 2017 – David Emerson reads from his paper
- Rivendell Meeting, March 26, 2022 – Beowulf translation and commentary by J. R. R. Tolkien
- Rivendell Meeting, March 27, 2021 – P. C. Hodgell, By Demons Possessed
- Rivendell Meeting, March 31, 2024 – T. Kingfisher (Ursula Vernon), Nettle and Bone
- Rivendell Meeting, May 11, 2019 – Tomi Adeyemi
- Rivendell Meeting, May 13, 2017 – Modern Surprises and Wondry Dragon Finds a Home by Joan Marie Verba
- Rivendell Meeting, May 18, 2024 – The Dark Lord’s Daughter by Patricia C. Wrede
- Rivendell Meeting, May 19, 2018 – Madeleine L’Engle
- Rivendell meeting, May 2, 2015 – Ruth Berman’s translation of fairy tales of Louise Cavelier Levesque
- Rivendell Meeting, May 20, 2023 – Grief of Stones by Katherine Addison
- Rivendell Meeting, May 21, 2016 – The Fisherman and His Soul
- Rivendell Meeting, November 10, 2018, John Bellairs, The House with a Clock In Its Walls
- Rivendell Meeting, November 18, 2017 – Brian Farrey
- Rivendell Meeting, November 18, 2023: The Silver Chair by C. S. Lewis
- Rivendell Meeting, November 19, 2016 – Eric M. Heideman and Roy C. Booth’s Raiders of the Seventh Planet
- Rivendell Meeting, November 20, 2021 – A Wizard’s Guide to Defensive Baking by T. Kingfisher
- Rivendell Meeting, November 21, 2015 – Terry Pratchett
- Rivendell Meeting, November 23, 2019 – Tolkien movie
- Rivendell Meeting, October 10, 2015 – Kelly Barnhill
- Rivendell Meeting, October 13, 2018 – Charles Williams
- Rivendell Meeting, October 21, 2023 – The Island of Doctor Moreau, The Daughter of Doctor Moreau
- Rivendell Meeting, October 24, 2020 – David Emerson, Mythology in Animation
- Rivendell Meeting, October 26, 2019, Naomi Novik
- Rivendell Meeting, October 26, 2024 – The Goodnight Agency by Tyler Tork
- Rivendell Meeting, October 28, 2017 – Jack Zipes
- Rivendell Meeting, October 30, 2021 – Defying the Ghosts by Joan Marie Verba
- Rivendell meeting, September 17, 2016 – Hobbits’ Birthday Party
- Rivendell meeting, September 21, 2019 – Hobbit Birthday Party
- Rivendell meeting, September 21, 2024 : Hobbit Birthday Party
- Rivendell Meeting, September 22, 2018 – Hobbits’ Birthday Party
- Rivendell Meeting, September 23, 2017 – Hobbits’ Birthday Party
- Rivendell Meeting, September 24, 2022 – Rings of Power
- Rivendell Meeting, September 25, 2021 – Hobbit Birthday Party
- Rivendell Meeting, September 26, 2020, Hobbit Birthday celebration
- The Fathergod Experiment discussion
- The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars discussion
- Tolkien’s Fall of Arthur, 9-25-14
- Rivendell Meeting, June 22, 2024, Alex Jennings, The Ballad of Perilous Graves
- Similar Groups